Dr. Gerry Meisels | White Oaks Westies

Interview with Dr. Gerry Meisels, Breeder of White Oaks Westies

1. Please tell us a little bit about yourself. Where do you live? How many years in dogs? How many years as a breeder? What is your kennel name?
2. In your opinion, is your breed in good condition overall? Any trends that warrant concern?
3. As a Preservation Breeder, can you share your thoughts on the sport today? How’s the judging these days? What do you think about the number of shows?
4. What does “Montgomery” represent to you as a Preservation Breeder? As an Exhibitor?
5. In your opinion, is social media good for the sport? Is it harmful?
6. What are the biggest challenges facing the dog show community as a whole today and how can these be addressed?
7. What are some of the positive changes you’ve seen in the sport over the past decade?

1. Westies have been the major part of our lives ever since we were married in 1958. My wife, Sylvia, and I lived in Northern New Jersey then. We were not planning to show and breed then, but when we found a wonderful bitch puppy at a great breeder, Barbara Worcester Keenan, she made showing her a condition of selling her to us. The puppy was a daughter of Westminster BIS winner Ch. Elfinbrook Simon. We began showing her after we moved to Houston the following year, where we, and Tom and Barbara Barrie, established the WHWTC of SE Texas. We began breeding and founded White Oaks Westies in 1960. I began judging Westies and then Terriers 30 years ago, and Sylvia started judging a few years later. We ended judging a few years ago for health reasons. In 2021, we turned breeding and showing over to our daughter, Laura Brown. My job led us to move to Nebraska in 1975 and to Tampa in 1988, where we live now.

2. In our opinion, Westies have improved over these 65 years. They now have consistently better balance, better heads, and better movement. Grooming has become more refined. Showmanship is stronger.

3. Overall, shows have changed over these years. Part of this is due to the clustering of shows. In the 1960s, shows moved every day to different communities. For example, there used to be a sequence of one-day shows each at Austin, Galveston, Houston, Shreveport, Dallas, and Ft. Worth. These days there are many multi-show clusters such as the one in Houston. Shows have become less observer-friendly. I do not know whether this may have contributed to the decline in Conformation entries in all breeds (1,394,538 Conformation entries in 2003, 1,037,358 in 2023: akc.org/classic/pdf/events/statistics).

The focus of Conformation shows has changed from presentation to the public to making it mostly for the convenience of exhibitors and professional handlers who have become much more common and often dominant.

The role of AKC has changed also. We still remember with gratitude and appreciation the guidance and encouragement provided to us by the AKC Field Representative when we got started in the 1960s. We don’t see a similar focus on helping exhibitors, especially newcomers, now.

After such a long time of showing, breeding, and judging, we think we know terriers, and especially Westies, very well. We used to go to shows within a two-day drive from where we lived, but now limit it to a radius of about 250 miles. We show a class bitch, so we will be able to put Ch. in front of her name, and we show one special mostly for the fun of it. But we really go to shows mostly to see our friends, including handlers and judges, with whom we share our commitment to improving the quality of dogs and to exploring aspects of the Breed Standards.

4. Montgomery County is the Pinnacle of Terrier Shows and a place where all the serious breeders, exhibitors, and professional terrier handlers convene annually. The terriers shown there are the best and show us the direction in which the breed is moving. We consistently showed at Montgomery County, winning a number of classes, with our most prestigious win with a bitch going BOS. Montgomery County has been, and still is, the outstanding show for Westies and terriers!

5. Social media has increased communication among the fancy and moved them to a large, national scale. I do not think it has done much to enhance the basic, hands-on approach to evaluating individual dogs.

6. We often hear complaints about the quality of judging. Many claim that some judges place the people at the other end of the lead, not the dogs. Frustrations with losing are to be expected, but some of the complaints seem to be justified. One reason for exhibitors’ frustration may be that judges are not visibly accountable for what they do. Some clubs provide feedback to Specialty judges by experienced breeders. This reaches only a very small fraction of judges. Holding a majority of judges accountable would require the impossible task of establishing what the right placements would be. Everything I can think of would create another set of very serious issues, such as who would determine what is correct, who would identify and approve such “superjudges,” whether these “superjudges” would be widely respected, what scale would be large enough to make it effective, and what would be the cost that would have to be met by increasing entry fees.

7. The management of shows has become more convenient and responsive to exhibitors. Unloading and setting up has become more convenient. Grooming has largely moved to spaces separate from the rings. We especially appreciate that most shows now have grooming spaces that can be reserved ahead of time, such as when we make entries. Another great development is the increased use of online conveniences and efficiencies. These include submitting entries online and accessing show results within minutes to hours of placements.

The photo also shows my wife Sylvia and our daughter Laura Brown who grooms and shows our dogs. While I did not say so in the interview, I am now 93 years old and Sylvia is 88. The dog in the photo is GCh. White Oaks Snowplow’s Shadow.